[iDC] The right questions for creative collectives

Wed Dec 26 21:21:46 UTC 2007

Well, you don't always need a "project" that is designed for collective
participation or producting a collective benefit. You just need to believe
in people, like to help them, and trust that you will get something in
return (if its money or something else like access/information). An couple
of examples, recently I helped someone figuring out some problems with her
Mac, I didn't ask any money, didn't even expect anything in return, but I
know if I need something she will try to help me (but I don't expect it, she
might not want to help me).

Its not always a community of good Samaritans, I am selfish, I do expect
that other people will help me (with contacts/information), and in the end
we will generate some commercial value. If you have contacts, have the right
information, and a stream of good ideas, why not benefit from that? I am
using that to launch some commercial projects that hopefully will generate
money. But I am not in the game to generate commercial value, but I don't
mind money being a product of my labor (so money isn't my main factor in
deciding in what things I would like to get involved in).

I think, for most people, who don't find a help giver, have a different
problem, they are not patient enough (you need to build reputation, get
known within the community) or are only in the community for their own
benefit. They want to invest the least amount of time but still want to get
the most value out of it. You may call it selfish but its more then that,
they people who are taught traditional economic, and don't understand the
value of reputation, informal communication, power of networks, social
capital, enc.

Currently I am getting ton's of opportunities because I just helped people
without considering money as a "main" factor of the equation. Are we that
arrogant that we can know before hand what will be the most fruitful
venture? Are financials really a good indicator? Why would anyone start with
something like youtube, google is still struggling to monetize it, if you
would look at the financials? If you use indicators like most MBA's do, you
limit yourself unnecessarily.

ps. fixed the help seeking stuff :) thinking about your giving seeking
arguments :)

On 12/26/07, R Labossiere <admin at klooj.net> wrote:
>
>  You mention "giving seeking, help giving and reflective reframing" but
> the diagram in your post says
> "help seeking" rather than "giving seeking."
>
> The idea of "giving seeking," even if inadvertent, is pretty interesting:
> it imagines a community of good samaritans who, as you note, tend to
> introduce themselves with their name and what they do, but also with a
> question like, "What can I do for you?"
>
> "Giving seeking" would typify creative collectives where individuals are
> constantly volunteering interpretations, revisions and new ideas. It would
> also be related to the gift economy<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy#Examples_in_modern_culture>which we find especially in the cultural sector where incomes are
> chronically low. (e.g. Abbing<http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Eabbing/DOCeconomist/new_book.htm>
> )
>
> "Giving seeking" would also confirm some of my experience where "help
> seeking" didn't actually find a "help giver;" the problem perhaps being that
> the project was not, or at least not obviously, designed for collective
> participation or producing a collective benefit. Giving seekers want to see
> everyone is rowing in the same direction. Creative collectives want to focus
> on mutual giving, not getting.
>
> There is a pretty good summary of Hargadan and Bechky's article here:
> http://beyondcreativity.blogs.com/mblog/2006/12/collective_crea.html
>
> cheers,
>
> Robert Labossiere
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Abdul-Rahman Advany <abdulrahman at advany.com>
> *To:* idc at mailman.thing.net
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 26, 2007 8:38 AM
> *Subject:* [iDC] The right questions for creative collectives
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have been following this list for a long time, someone suggested I
> contribute a post I recently wrote. Two days ago I blogged about "The right
> questions for creative collectives" on
> http://blog.socialbytes.com/2007/12/the-right-questions-for-creative-collectives/.
> I would love your comments/suggestions to this approach of networking (lets
> discuss it on this list, Ill post a link on the blog to this thread).
>
> The right questions for creative collectives
>
> [image: questioning.jpg]
>
> One of the tools that make creative networking powerful is the way people
> get to know each other by asking the right questions. When you don't know
> the right stuff about people its very difficult to determine what you can
> ask them and how you can help them (or how they can help you).
>
> One of the articles I recently read on the topic of collective creativity
> by Haragadon <http://atypon-link.com/INF/loi/orsc> gave me a very clear
> insight into "creative networking" and the interaction between people. Let
> me briefly explain a part of this model to emphasize my point.
>
> Haragadon mentions three behaviors, giving seeking, help giving and
> reflective reframing. The first two behaviors matter a lot for creative
> networking. People tend to work alone, and only together when teams are
> formed. However this removes flexibility of people being involved, and
> thereby reduces creativity. When you tell someone what you are doing or ask
> them help, you inform them what you are involved in. When you give help or
> are involved in a project you inform people of what you're good at. This
> information about you travels by informal communication through your
> network.
>
> [image: haragadon.gif]
>
> http://blog.socialbytes.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/haragadon.gif
>
> *What do you do?*
> The first think after their name most people tell each other is what they
> do. I have even been told to prepare a first line containing my name,
> current job/activities. For me this would be "Hi, I am Abdul, Entrepreneur
> and researcher in the field of IT". However I am a little hesitant to use
> this as I have a lot more roles in life then those two, but sometimes I do.
>
> Most of the time there is always room to ask someone what they do. Some
> can describe it in couple of words while others need couple of minutes (or
> sometimes people are unable to shut-up about what they do ;)). I sometimes
> ask what a person does when someone joins a group conversation or approaches
> me and looks like he feels uncomfortable.
>
> Recently I forgot to ask some people what they did, it seems like such a
> basic thing. But when you don't know how people fill most of their day, its
> difficult to position them inside your network. And what kind of people you
> can refer to them.
>
> *What are you good at?*
> Looking at the model of Haragadon, this question of "What are you good
> at?" falls right under the wing of help seeking. By asking this question you
> will know when to approach this person. And what kind of information this
> person might have.
>
> I had until recently never met people who where good at discovering the
> underlying cause of pretenses. The guy I met had a method of questioning to
> find the reason behind pretenses. I helped him with some analysis of his
> business idea and in return we explored some of the pretenses I had. In the
> process of him telling me what he was good at and me experiencing it, it
> established a very good feeling of who he was as a person.
>
> I continued to ask people this question and found that I got the essential
> information needed to learn what kind of people my network contained.
> Currently I know what people are good at, I didn't know by only asking them
> what they did. People have so much to offer then what they give at their
> daily jobs.
>
> *How can I help you?*
> Most of the people I know like to help others, if its in a academic
> setting, corporate setting or if its just what they like to do generally.
> However most of them ask for something in return, a objective exchange of
> value from both sides. They are not interesting in building social capital
> as a way of helping each other. Social capital they can use later on because
> they know what other people are good at.
>
> Some people I mentioned in my previous post<http://blog.socialbytes.com/2007/12/a-new-way-of-creative-networking/>work based on the concept of valuation afterwards. They help other people,
> by giving away information and contacts. They don't loose anything by giving
> away those two things. Sometimes they get involved, and donate their time.
> By doing this they build a lot of social capital and get the right
> information, from the right people and sometimes at the right time. I will
> dedicate a post to this effect of networking on information and on the
> principle of valuation afterwards.
>
> Couple of weeks ago I met someone who informed me of her plans. I
> immediately thought of connecting this person with the other person I spend
> some time with. They are currently working together on some very interesting
> things. After some time, a classmate of mine needed some info, I didn't
> hesitate to ask this person for this information and got a response quickly.
> I wonder if I could find an agency who could provide me with that
> information that quickly, and they would probably charge my classmate a lot
> of money. And only in this case I have build social capital at three sides,
> connecting two people and giving one person information by asking the other.
>
> There is one more reason to ask someone this basic question of how you can
> help them. Its very difficult to get to know someone by only talking to
> them. If you haven't worked together or don't know someone who has, you will
> only know what someone tells you. In the years of working with people I have
> discovered that you really get to know people when you or others you know
> experience how the person in question interacts, what he delivers, what he
> contributes, enc. Recently I met someone who seemed to be very
> knowledgeable, but when working together I found out how little (s)he knew
> about the practical application of her field of expertise.
>
> *Dare to ask yourself*
> Helping people is good but you should also ask for help yourself.
> Sometimes if you only tell what you are involved with people will offer
> their help but its good to ask people for help because that gives people
> time to provide it to you and return a favor. People are very eager to help
> each other, don't forget that.
>
> *The network effect*
> When you get people involved in your network, they form a other powerful
> node that adds value to the entire network. They spread around who you are
> in their network, they get to know you by working with your network, and
> they form a bridge between networks and making it a larger. Just read The
> Starfish and the Spider <http://www.starfishandspider.com/>, great book by
> Ori Brafman and Rod A. Beckstrom, to understand this effect in more detail.
> --
> Abdul-Rahman Advany
>
> IM:  abdulrahman at advany.com
> W: http://blog.socialbytes.com/
> Skype: abdulrahmanadvany
>
> ------------------------------
>
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-- 
Abdul-Rahman Advany

IM: abdulrahman at advany.com
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