[iDC] The Aims of Education

Fri Sep 9 12:54:33 UTC 2011

The swiftness with which the UK is reverting to an American pattern of
spending on higher education is frightening and destabilizing. Still, I have
to point out that there's a logical relationship between the massification
of higher education and the withdrawal of state support. It's not just about
commodification.

When Oxbridge was for <5% of the population, no problem, it was free. When
higher education is for 40-50% of the population, free is a far more
expensive proposition.

Part of that is about the limits of solidarity in a democratic society--the
rich may feel comfortable supporting each other but not the middle class.
There's a telling example in my book where African-American and Latino
students in the CUNY public college system in New York successfully
organized for equal and open admissions policies in the early 1970s; just a
year or two later, the state assembly voted to charge tuition at those
schools for the first time.
-Anya

On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 4:22 AM, Simon Biggs <simon at littlepig.org.uk> wrote:

> The price of education is not stable in the USA and here in the UK it is
> rising radically. The UK government's decision to withdraw all tax payer
> funded support for public Higher Education teaching costs means that the fee
> students pay is rising from £3000 to an average of £8500 (in some
> institutions £9000) per year. That is an increase in cost to the student and
> an increase in income to the institutions (the unit value of the student is
> increasing by around 20%). In Scotland, where education policy is a devolved
> matter, University remains free for Scottish and EU students. However, due
> to a legal anomaly, Scot's institutions can charge English, Welsh and
> Northern Irish students up to £9000/year as well. Scottish degrees are four
> years whilst English are three. My own institution (Edinburgh) announced
> last week it will charge English students £36,000 for a basic degree, making
> it by far the most expensive choice for an English candidate, some 20-25%
> more expensive than Cambridge or Oxford (Scotland's second ranked
> institution, St Andrews, is charging £27,000 for the same degree). We will
> see how long the state of affairs can be sustained (political, legal or
> economic circumstances could cause further change in any direction) but
> these are eye watering increases in both costs to the student and income to
> the provider.
>
> This is not about a rise in costs but a realignment of the relationship
> between tax payers and the state. It is an ideologically driven change,
> where a government thinks education is neither a public good or a right but
> a service to be purchased by a consumer. If they can offload the costs of HE
> then they can put resources into reducing the national debt, which is their
> stated current priority. We are protected from this in Scotland
> (politically) but, as Edinburgh's decision on fees shows, there are
> nevertheless extremely negative consequences. Nearly 50% of Edinburgh's
> 30,000 students are from south of the border. We will see what happens to
> the number post-2012, but my feeling is that the numbers will be sustained
> as the University is way over-subscribed. The effect this will have on the
> culture of the institution will be profound.
>
> best
>
> Simon
>
>
> On 8 Sep 2011, at 21:05, Anya Kamenetz wrote:
>
> >>Costs and prices are both rising. My comments referred to the reasons
> costs are rising.  Jane Wellman of the Delta Cost Project has done the most
> detailed work as to why.
>
> >>the price of higher ed is actually pretty constant compared to other
> things that use secure 1st world labor. It got more expensive relative to
> things that became much, much cheaper because of lower labor costs and or
> substitution of tech for labor power.
>
> Actually the price of higher ed has risen even relative to the price of
> health care, which is the closest related example of a service provided by
> secure first world labor. And yes, my whole point is that it is more
> expensive relative to other things people choose to spend their money on,
> and that this makes it both more commodified and less desirable.
> As for the factors you mentioned: labor costs have been lowered in higher
> ed with the advent of adjuncts, but the savings have gone to the bottom
> line, not the student.
> And the substitution of technology for labor power is one of the things
> that has been delayed but is happening and will happen in higher education
> because many people would prefer to pay less for a similar service.
>
> The assertion that higher education is a "good investment for most degrees
> most of the time" varies by course of study, the quality and the cost of
> one's degree. It has been so in the past but may not continue to be so in
> the future. Whenever this point is raised I also feel compelled to mention
> that there are 41 million people in this country with a bachelor's degree,
> and 44 million people with some college and no degree. Most onetime college
> students have realized little to no return.
> a
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Philipp Schmidt <philipp at p2pu.org> wrote:
>
>> On 8 September 2011 13:50, Ken Wark <warkk at newschool.edu> wrote:
>> > Anya: I'd want to be a bit more cautious about cost-of-education
>> arguments.
>> >
>> > Firstly, pricing in American higher ed is all about discounts. The gap
>> between sticker price and discount has been getting wider, so sticker price
>> isn't all that helpful as a measure.
>> >
>> > In the second place, the price of higher ed is actually pretty constant
>> compared to other things that use secure 1st world labor. It got more
>> expensive relative to things that became much, much cheaper because of lower
>> labor costs and or substitution of tech for labor power.
>> >
>> > In the third place, it is mostly still a good long term investment.
>> Things like culinary school are in some cases not a good investment, but for
>> most degrees most of the time, it pays off.
>> >
>>
>> Could you share some reliable data supporting the second and third claim?
>>
>> Most people argue the opposite -> price rising much faster than other
>> goods/services, and long term benefits at best questionable.
>>
>> P
>>
>>
>> P
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *New ebook!** *The Edupunks' Guide <http://edupunksguide.org/>*
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> *Book* DIY U: Edupunks, Edupreneurs and the Coming Transformation of
> Higher Education
> <http://www.amazon.com/DIY-Edupunks-Edupreneurs-Transformation-Education/dp/1603582347>
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> *Twitter *@Anya1anya <http://twitter.com/#%21/anya1anya>
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> Simon Biggs | simon at littlepig.org.uk | www.littlepig.org.uk
>
> s.biggs at ed.ac.uk | Edinburgh College of Art | University of Edinburgh
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-- 
*New ebook!** *The Edupunks' Guide <http://edupunksguide.org/>*
Fast Company column* Life In Beta<http://www.fastcompany.com/user/anya-kamenetz>
*Tribune Media column* The Savings
Game<http://www.tmsfeatures.com/columns/business/personal-finance/savings-game/>
*Book* DIY U: Edupunks, Edupreneurs and the Coming Transformation of  Higher
Education
<http://www.amazon.com/DIY-Edupunks-Edupreneurs-Transformation-Education/dp/1603582347>
*Blog* DIYUbook.com <http://diyubook.com/>
*Twitter *@Anya1anya <http://twitter.com/#%21/anya1anya>
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